At what cost? Listening to Your Gut, Doing Hard Things and Taking Action with Lindsay Vastola

Episode Overview

In a world where we're constantly bombarded with external pressures and societal expectations, it's crucial to assess the cost of living a life that doesn't align with our values and goals. Many of us go through the motions, making decisions based on what we think others expect from us. However, true fulfillment comes from listening to our gut, trusting ourselves, and keeping the commitments we make to ourselves. This article explores how to cultivate these practices and why they are essential for personal growth and living an authentic life.

The Cost of Misalignment

When we consistently make choices that don't align with our values, we pay a significant price. This misalignment often leads to feelings of dissatisfaction, burnout, and even depression. Imagine working in a high-paying job that drains your energy and leaves you with little time for family or self-care. The financial rewards might be substantial, but at what cost? The real cost is your well-being, relationships, and ultimately, your happiness.

Recognizing the Signs

The first step in realigning your life with your values is recognizing the signs of misalignment. These can include chronic stress, a sense of emptiness, and a lack of enthusiasm for activities you once enjoyed. It's essential to take a step back and ask yourself, "At what cost am I continuing on this path?" This reflection can be the catalyst for meaningful change.

Trusting Yourself and Your Gut

Our intuition, or "gut feeling," is a powerful tool that can guide us towards decisions that align with our true selves. However, many of us have been conditioned to ignore or rationalize away our gut feelings. Learning to trust yourself means tuning into these intuitive signals and acting on them.

Obeying Your Gut

Listening to your gut is one thing, but obeying it is another. This means taking action based on what your intuition is telling you, even when it's uncomfortable or goes against the expectations of others. For example, if your gut tells you to leave a high-stress job, it's crucial to heed that advice and explore other career options that align better with your values and lifestyle.

Keeping Commitments to Yourself

Building self-trust is essential for aligning your life with your values. One of the most effective ways to build this trust is by keeping the commitments you make to yourself. This could be as simple as setting a goal to exercise three times a week and sticking to it, or more complex like pursuing a career change.

Small Steps, Big Impact

Start with small, manageable commitments. The key is consistency. When you consistently keep the promises you make to yourself, you build a sense of reliability and trust in your own abilities. Over time, this self-trust will empower you to make more significant changes that align with your values and goals.

Living a life aligned with your values is not just about big, dramatic changes. It's about making small, consistent choices that reflect your true self. By assessing the cost of misalignment, trusting your gut, and keeping commitments to yourself, you can navigate your life towards greater fulfillment and authenticity. Remember, the journey to living an intentional life starts with one small step: listening to and trusting yourself.

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

Mindset by Carol Dweck

To learn more about what Lindsay is up to, go to to join her list and learn about her upcoming events and programs. And follow her @lindsayvastola and

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Episode Transcript for At what cost? Listening to Your Gut, Doing Hard Things and Taking Action with Lindsay Vastola

Kelly Berry (00:02.302)
Hello everyone and welcome to Life Intended. I'm your host, Kelly Berry. Life Intended is a podcast that explores what it means to be true to yourself and live an authentic and purposeful life. Each episode explores my guest's version of personal growth, self-discovery, and the pursuit of becoming the best version of themselves and how to find joy in the journey. Today, I'm joined by my very good friend, Lindsay Vastola. I'm really excited for our conversation today.

Lindsay is a New York City corporate manager turned entrepreneur on a mission to help success-driven professionals win at work and life as healthy high achievers. After experiencing the firsthand realities of burnout early in her corporate career, Lindsay took the plunge into entrepreneurship and started her first business, a fitness and wellness company tailored for busy professionals. And that's how our journeys crossed a long time ago. After 15 years of coaching thousands of highly driven individuals, many on the brink of burnout, she realized that most don't want work-life balance. What they really want are more effective ways to successfully shoulder the everyday demands of work and life without giving up one for the other. This inspired her second venture, Vast Potential, a professional development company helping businesses and leaders build cultures of healthy high performance. Lindsay's also a mother, a soon-to-be author, which I'm really excited about. So hi, Lindsay. Thanks for joining me today.

Lindsay Vastola (01:38.587)
Kelly, it's always fun to be with you, whether we're recording it or just catching up. So thank you for having me.

Kelly Berry (01:45.118)
Yeah, it's great. Lindsay and I just had a conversation a couple of weeks ago that was probably two hours long, and we could have recorded it and turned it into several podcasts. There was a lot of good stuff. So it's always great to talk to you. That was a lot about you professionally. So tell everybody more about who Lindsay is as a person.

Lindsay Vastola (02:06.715)
Yeah, so I guess in reverse engineering it, I currently live in Raleigh, North Carolina. We moved with my two children. My son is 12 and my daughter is seven. We moved to Raleigh from New Jersey after being there for 20 years. My husband's originally from there. It was a good move for us. There were some family considerations, and I'm sure many who are listening to this are in that sandwich generation where you have to balance taking care of aging parents and young children. So that was a pivotal move for our family. By degree, I'm in international politics. I always think it's funny how many of us go to college for something and end up doing something wildly different. I grew up in Hawaii. So I have that West Coast background, born in California, raised in Hawaii. I moved to the East Coast for college and sort of the rest is history. In the process, I went from working that first career in New York City, learning the ropes of climbing a corporate ladder and the demands professionally and personally, and that was even before kids, then starting a business and going out on my own and what I learned just in those almost 20 years now. I think in retrospect, and I think that's what we'll talk a lot about today, how those decisions and how that journey really frames and impacts this journey that 20 years ago, it's so cliche if somebody said, you'll be sitting in Raleigh, North Carolina doing podcasts about work and life and with somebody you met in the fitness industry 20 years later, I wouldn't have believed it. You just can't tell that. And then all those little lessons you learn along the way, the lessons of being a mom and navigating relationships and shouldering family burdens and obligations in your community. I guess in short, it's almost like, I guess for all of us, right, we're just building the plane as we fly it and we collect experiences along the way. Maybe we can discuss some of those today. So I hope that gives you a little bit of an idea.

Kelly Berry (04:30.526)
Yeah, definitely. Thanks. I actually, I'm not sure if I knew about the international politics. That sounds new to me.

Lindsay Vastola (04:35.611)
Oh, you didn't? Yeah. So I was your typical high achiever. I was a middle child, but I took on a lot of first-born responsibilities. My brother was born with several health complications, and I think I stepped into that first-born role quite a bit. I'm a rule follower, a people pleaser, check all the boxes, do everything, class president, captain of all the teams. I remember very specifically thinking about what I was going to major in in college. I only applied to the big fancy colleges because that's what Lindsay should do, making decisions that weren't necessarily what I wanted but what I thought other people thought I should do. International politics sounded really big and important. So I went to Washington, DC, went to American University, which is a great university. That was a great experience, but I studied Japanese for eight years. Being in Hawaii, you take Spanish or Japanese. So Japanese ended up living in Japan as part of my college program for about a year and a half and came back for that last year.

Kelly Berry (05:44.574)

Lindsay Vastola (05:54.107)
But yeah, so International Politics, my first career was with an international translation company. That fit really well with my language background and just the international relations. And then I very quickly learned that, yeah, I don't know if this is really the path I'm supposed to be on. So, new fun fact you didn't know.

Kelly Berry (06:12.446)
Yeah, really, that's awesome. All right, so, you know, you and I know a lot about each other. So I think some of these conversations just really fit well with what I'm trying to accomplish on this podcast and living like who you want to be rather than who you think you should be. And so you've already said some things that I think really lend themselves to kicking off the conversation that way. So I think, you know, I was also a high achiever, high performer. I think I can totally relate to the being not really influenced in your decision making, but probably not making decisions necessarily 100% in alignment with what you want or who you think you want to be. But also very much the, who you think that you should be. So how have you been able to overcome that throughout your career and how has that influenced how you make decisions now?

Lindsay Vastola (07:21.691)
I think when I really realized this, and it really wasn't that long ago, was I think intuitively I always realized that that was a filter I used. What are other people going to think about my decision? Does it fit with the perception they have of me? And if I did anything that didn't seem like it matched, that people would question that and then it would somehow question my abilities or what have you. And the pivotal moment actually, I don't know if I think you've heard of this, it's Mindset by Carol Dweck. So it's interesting. This was, you know, after I left my corporate job, which was a huge, talk about a decision that I made that I probably prolonged that decision because I was like, well, why would people, like, what are people going to think if I leave this amazing job that pays me well? I'm climbing the ranks. I'm traveling the world. I'm getting this great experience. It seems so stupid. Like, why would, Lindsay, that's not a smart move for you to do that. And so I prolonged that again, because I thought what other people would perceive of it. And so I read this book and it's interesting. So I had already started my fitness business doing a lot of coaching and mindset that just kind of comes with the territory. So I always top level understood the idea of growth mindset versus scarcity mindset, right? No, that's what she calls them, growth fixed mindset. I know there's different, so she calls it the fixed and the growth mindset. And I would always consider myself, oh yeah, I'm growth mindset. I believe I can achieve anything I put my mind to. I'm absolutely capable. So there was, I never had gaps, if you will, of like what I believed I was capable of achieving. Ergo, I just assumed that I was growth mindset. Well, I read this book and it was almost like I had this mini identity crisis because when she talked about the fixed mindset, in many ways, my whole life I've lived by the fixed mindset because it's almost like, you know, when you're labeled as, well, Lindsay always, you know, Lindsay is smart. Lindsay is a good leader. And so anything I did that didn't look smart or didn't kind of fit those categories, I wouldn't make those decisions. Even though I knew deep down, I was like, I'm ready to move on. I'm ready to evolve out of this. But just like leaving my corporate job in New York, that's not a smart move to many people, even though for me, I knew it wasn't there. So when I started looking at my decision making, Lindsay, is this really you? Is this really you? Is this a decision you really, really want or are you using other people's perceptions to cloud that? And I think that a lot of that is just self-reflection, self-awareness, being mindful of how other people even describe you.

Kelly Berry (10:28.478)

Lindsay Vastola (10:38.875)
And that kind of always brought to, it might sound a little bit, what's the word, not woo woo, but a little ethereal. When we say like, listen to your gut. I don't know if we've talked about this before, but you know, we always hear like, listen to your gut, listen to your gut. And it's like, I would always listen to my gut, but I would usually excuse it away. It's like, Lindsay, you really need to leave this job or Lindsay, you need to move on from this business or you really shouldn't engage in this, you know, quote unquote, opportunity. My gut, I was listening to it. But because of my fixed mindset, I would almost excuse it away. Like, well, Lindsay, it's a good paying job. You really shouldn't leave. Like, what are people going to think, right? I would excuse it away and then ultimately come to the same conclusion. It just, it made the decision making so much longer and stressful, I think just undue stress that we put on ourselves. And so it was a couple of years ago, I was talking to somebody and he said, you know what I've learned? Like you don't just listen to your gut, you obey your gut. And I was like, wow, to me that was very profound. That was like any time that little voice is saying something just isn't right here or you need to move forward on this or you need to let go of this, like obey it and do it, do your due diligence. Like you need to question yourself and all that, but compress the time between this is the decision that I believe is right for me and the action you take. And in retrospect, I think I probably would have saved a lot of time, energy, stress, money, like had I actually obeyed my gut. So I think now if you're asking me, okay, well, how do I make decisions differently now? I think I'm much more swifter and trusting of obeying that gut through that lens of like, Lindsay, the reason you're not doing the things you know you want to do and need to do is because of that fixed mindset, what you think other people are perceiving of you.

Kelly Berry (12:17.278)
Thank you.

Lindsay Vastola (12:38.747)
Coupled with like, you just need to take action and course correct later. If it turns out to not be the thing, course correct. So I don't know if that was a bit of a long-winded way of answering that question, but those were the two, I think over the course of, call it 20 years or so, that's made a big difference for me.

Kelly Berry (12:56.286)
Yeah. So Mindset is one of my favorite books. I recommend it to almost everyone. I try not to should on anyone, but I think, you know, that's a book parents should read.

Lindsay Vastola (13:09.275)

Lindsay Vastola (13:13.403)
Yes, I love that she has that section about parenting. And like we say to your kid, you know, oh, you're so smart and it's so well intended. But that's what they told me. And I know subconsciously now I'm saying, well, if this decision doesn't look smart, then I shouldn't do it. It's really, I agree with you. I think it's a fantastic read for anybody and everybody.

Kelly Berry (13:23.742)

Kelly Berry (13:29.502)
Yeah. When I read it the first time, it was a pivotal moment in my self-awareness. It explained so much of how I had been my entire life. The reason that I felt certain ways about certain decisions or, you know, kind of like a high achiever that sought out recognition. It's because like, when you've only been recognized for outcomes and never really effort, it changes the way that you approach things. I think when I was getting my MBA, it kind of slapped me in the face. It was like the first time I've been in a room full of people that, I mean, and this sounds like so self-centered or I don't even know how to explain it, but it's like, you know, kind of the first time I was in a room with people who were a lot smarter than me. And I didn't know what to do. I didn't know, like, how do I get from where I am to where they are? Anyway, it led to a whole lot of self-discovery and coaching moments for myself. Yes, yes. But I think what you were talking about, we've been deprogrammed to trust ourselves, to trust our gut. I know that you work with a lot of women, not exclusively women, but a lot of women who probably struggle with that a lot. So how does somebody get to a point where they can learn to trust what they want again?

Lindsay Vastola (15:13.147)
Yeah, God, that's such a good question and a lot of layers. Actually, it's interesting. I work with an array of ages. I was just talking to a new client and she's 22 years old, just getting into her career. I happened to coach her mom and her dad who are at the peak kind of on the way out. It's interesting the similarities, whether you're 22 or 52 or 62. There is always the central question of really not either not thinking about or maybe putting, we get so busy that we don't put time and energy into sort of like the what's next. That seems to be the central question. I don't know what's next. And so then we stop listening because we get so comfortable in the routine. I think that's really what happens. As humans, we like that sense of security of like, okay, I have a good job. I go and I do the job and I do the mom thing or the parent thing or all those other obligations. As stressful and as pulling as those things are, and it oftentimes are uncomfortable, the discomfort of doing anything different is usually like the pain has to be so great to create that change. And then that's why we wake up. So that 22-year-old, my hope is that I give you know, that I can coach her with some of these strategies and things I wish I had at 22 so that I can more quickly evolve or be aware that, oh yeah, here I am 10, 20, 30 years later and I'm doing the same thing, I have the same frustrations, now they're just 30 pounds heavier. Now they're just that much more in debt. Now it's more complicated. So I think that's probably where the biggest resistance comes is we don't challenge ourselves to stretch. I like using the word stretch because it's not like setting goals. It's making sure that we don't get caught in the hamster wheel of the everyday. Even if it's uncomfortable, we stay comfortable because it's familiar. So we ask ourselves, there's one question I regularly ask myself when I feel anything like lack of balance. For those of you listening, I'm doing air quotes like balance work-life. At what cost? Those three words are very powerful. I can keep doing this job, but at what cost? If you have that honest conversation with yourself of like, you know, internally you're like, yeah, this job pays me really well, but I'm missing out on my kid's life. I'm putting my health on the back burner. Is the job worth it? At what cost will I continue this job? And if I'm okay or if I can figure out a better way to navigate the other things, but at least that at what cost forces you to really question what you're doing, how long you want to do it for, and if the cost, if you determine the cost is too great or too painful, then and only then will you start thinking about what the next possibilities are. I think the at what cost is that gut check. Okay, yeah, you know what the reality is. I can make all the money in the world. How many of us know people who have a ton of money seemingly, or they seem so, but they're just so unhappy? And that's probably because they're not really having those honest conversations about at what cost and making whatever uncomfortable and necessary change they probably knew they needed to make all along, just didn't listen.

Kelly Berry (19:06.686)
Yeah, yeah. So I think that being comfortable is a big trigger. I've recently gone through this. I know you and I were talking, and I told you, I kind of feel like I've been going through a midlife crisis in some ways. I'm 42. Things just had felt very comfortable for a long time, but also like uncomfortably comfortable. I think, like you're describing, like a lot of the things I just tried to ignore or really, I guess ignore is the best way to describe them until tragedy happened. Then it's like, okay, well, life is really short and the things that I want are important and they are okay for me to pursue. Or I'm not comfortable living this life and now I know I need to make a change. What do you see? I think being comfortable, it's hard to feel those triggers that will get you out of it, to even ask the at what cost question. So what can people look for to let them know I might really just be going with the flow a little bit too much over here. I'm not really stopping to think about what's going on or what I want. So what are triggers that people can feel or how can they check in with themselves on those things?

Lindsay Vastola (20:55.771)
This is going to sound really strange, but I actually think, and I think some of this depends on the personality of the person. But if we're talking to people who, like, I think both you and I believe, whether you believe in God or whatever, like we are put here for a very specific purpose and intention. I believe that. And I remember very specifically thinking, it was probably right around when I turned 40. I'm not afraid of being 40, age doesn't mean much to me. It has never really been one of those things for me where I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm 40 or 30. But what it did was it created a sense of urgency inside of me because I started doing the math and I was like, oh, if 40 years flew by, I can start doing the math. So if I realistically, let's call it 40 more years. Wow. I've got a lot of fire. There's so much potential and it sounds so strange, but it's almost like I have to self-inflict urgency. You have to create something so deep and remind yourself of it consistently. And I think different people are motivated, triggered, whatever word you want to use by different things. Some are by fear. Oh my gosh, I have to do this because if I don't, then my kids, my legacy. Maybe it's fear that drives you. Or is it the opposite where it's like, well, I just want to do this. I don't think either is right or wrong, but have that honest conversation with yourself. Like I actually learned, I used to think that I was the one who was like the positive, like I want to leave a legacy for my children and I want to just do good things in this world and make an impact. And I actually found that did not intrinsically motivate me, but I thought that's how I was supposed to do it. I think that's kind of along the lines that they talk about like toxic optimism or what's the phrase they use, right? Toxic positivity. It wasn't like Lindsay, you can keep wanting to leave a great legacy and do this for your kids, but it's not spurring you to action. It's not making you do uncomfortable things that you know you have to do in order to progress and move. So for me, it's, I've got a finite period of time, which means every single day I need to do something or be, maybe it's not every day, but like it has to be so top of mind. I almost have to create this sense of urgency. Like I only have a limited time to do it. Like I really need to light my fire, like get my fire under my ass and do hard things. And I feel better about myself when I do that. It's so backwards, but that's what I mean by like, it's like the self-inflicted challenge that every day I have to remind myself of. For me, I don't know if you'd call it a mantra or like a belief, I guess, that I repeat to myself that kind of stokes this is like, I have to bet on myself. That's for me, it's like when I say I got to bet on myself, nobody else is going to do the hard work for me. Nobody else is going to come in and do it for me. So if it's me and only me, and I can't rely on anybody else, and I don't mean that in a way that like, I believe you absolutely need the right people in your life. But I think for a long time, I rested on my laurels thinking that this community of people were going to help me see my potential. Every day, I've got to do the hard things. So that for me is the way I self-inflict or I self-induce that sense of urgency. Otherwise, I will get complacent. I will get to the like, oh, maybe tomorrow, like tomorrow, I'll just get to that hard thing. And it ebbs and flows. I'm certainly not sitting here saying that every day I'm at peak performance, I think for all the reasons. But if I can aim for 70 to 80% of the time that I have disciplines in place that keep me from creating excuses, I use that sort of like bet on me, nobody else is going to do it for me. There's a timestamp on this. And Lindsay, like you were put here. That to me is the pressure I need. Like Lindsay, if you don't fulfill what you were put here, like not that you're a failure, but I'm shortchanging a lot of people. My family, the people I want to impact, I'm shortchanging them and that's not cool. So does that make sense? Like that self-inflicted?

Kelly Berry (25:26.622)
Yeah, yeah. And I think you're right on when you say everybody needs to figure out what that is for themselves because it is so different. I think even it evolves. I think maybe what would have motivated me 15 years ago is not the same thing that does now. But I also feel that sense of urgency where one day, it wasn't one day I woke up and everything was different, but one day I realized no one's coming to save me. I've had these things on my goal list for years and I just keep rolling them over like somebody's going to come out of thin air and hand these things to me. And that is just not the way life works. In our household, Nick and I, and raising our daughter, we talk a lot about agency, personal agency and taking responsibility. A lot of my evolution was realizing that I hadn't been doing that for a long time and how important that is to actually make your life the way that you want it to be. I don't think I was consciously sitting on these goals or sitting on these things being like, well, one day I'm just going to get really lucky and everything's going to happen for me. But when I look back, that's kind of exactly what I was doing. Just because you say you want this or you write it down on a piece of paper, it doesn't make it happen.

Lindsay Vastola (27:10.203)
Yeah. Can I get a little bit salty for a little bit? I think that, and it's funny, I don't know if it was an age thing or just an experience thing. There are things that I believe we've been programmed to believe like work-life balance, self-care, this whole notion of manifestation and what's the other one? Manifesting, like just put it out into the universe and it'll come to you. I think that's created, there's a very fine line between the essence of what those are supposed to do and creating excuses. It's like, oh, self-care, right. I've had a really stressful week self-care, and so I'm going to have a glass of wine every night out of self-care. Or like, I'm going to be here lazy for the entire weekend and use self-care as an excuse. Or I'm not going to do that hard thing. I'm not going to really challenge myself because it's so, it's such a slippery slope. And I think with the goals thing, we've kind of been conditioned that this manifestation and you put it out into the universe, that's if I'm being completely honest, I think I rested on that a little bit too. It's like, well, I just put it out there and I keep talking about it. Even though I was doing work in retrospect, there are things I was not putting in the amount of work that's required in order to get the return, like to create and generate the opportunities to return. It requires risk. It requires challenging yourself, doing things that are uncomfortable. I think that's where, even for high achievers that feel like we're working hard and we're being productive and we're doing things, are they really stretching us enough and challenging us enough to actually become the person required to achieve those goals? Or are we just checking the boxes like, yeah, we're supposed to make goals and then somehow they're going to happen if you just work hard and return. I think there's a lot more intentionality and just dig your heels in the ground and do some hard things in order to create that. So that's kind of my salty take on a lot of these things that have maybe made us into just resting on our laurels a little bit or not challenging ourselves enough. There's a balance between pushing yourself so hard where now it becomes self-loathing or you don't see your worth. The difference is like, no, this is actually how I gain confidence is by doing hard things and taking risks. I feel so good when I do those things and then that's what propels me forward. That's a skill. Who's teaching that? That's the agency part of it, you know?

Kelly Berry (30:05.246)
Right. I think that's what you just talked about. I think it's just one of the reasons that we get along so well, because I get salty about all of those things also. Manifestation is a big one. I think it's a misappropriated term. It has a place. If you actually manifest something and then back it up with a plan, that's goal setting or that's just like being aspirational.

Lindsay Vastola (30:24.187)
Totally. It's like creating a vision and creating a pathway or a journey or like an action plan to get there. Yeah.

Kelly Berry (30:47.934)
I'm with you there. I think there's a lot that I see and this is, you know, it's a whole other topic on its own, but there's so much I see on social media that's geared towards women or geared towards women who are aspiring to be business owners or women who are business owners. There's so many conflicting messages and all you have to do is manifest it or you don't work so hard or hustle or it's like everywhere you look, somebody's got a message that's like the key to happiness. I am more like you, I don't believe that there are hacks and I don't believe that there are shortcuts. We both come from the fitness world. We both know that you take a shortcut and it is what it is. If you're looking for real fulfillment or real change in your life or real anything, it takes work. Anybody who tells you that it doesn't is misleading you. Period.

Lindsay Vastola (31:52.219)
Agreed. It's having tools. I think that's the shortcut. In the blips of social media, I do think, and this is where I get a little bit salty too, I think we're doing a real disservice for ambitious women when we start, you know, the girl boss thing or the side hustle thing. It's like, we have an uncanny ability innately, I believe, to like, if there's, and you might not be clear, I think, or you don't might have clarity of what that is. But if you take agency and personal leadership and you say, you know what, I need to find like one of the tool or the topics I always say is so critical is, and I didn't invent it by any means, was it, who was it? Jim Rohn, the top five, like who are you in your circle of five? Who are in your circle? Who are you talking to? What are your influences? I don't get clarity when I'm sitting behind my computer or trying to jot down brainstorms on a notepad for days on end. I've tried that and you just end up hitting your head up against a wall when you're trying to find what I'm supposed to do or get clarity on things. Whether you're a man or a woman, it's like essentially the same. You've got to put yourself around the right people who know how to ask you the right questions, who can see things in you maybe that you can't see yourself. But that requires getting out from behind the computer or whatever. You can zoom, but you know what I mean, like getting out. I think that as I'm saying that, I do think like between social media and the new workplace environment where so much, you're not having as much water cooler talk, you're not doing the networking. I think what's lost in that or what ends up happening is we get a little bit complacent and lazy because we're not forced to have those conversations. We're not put in situations. So we just end up isolated and then lost and then not having clarity and then we're frustrated. Then we look for the hacks of how to fast track it instead of doing those things that have been proven for however long to really be the keys to clarity.

Kelly Berry (33:26.206)
Yeah, for sure. When you wait too long, when you get to the breaking point, I think that's when you feel like you're like, well, now crap, I don't have time to put in the work. I've got to make a change now. A lot of what my goal is with this podcast is just to bring conversations like this to people who maybe are in a situation where they haven't stopped to think about what they're doing for a while, or they don't realize that they're just going through the motions, going with the flow. They don't realize that the things that they are aspiring to and that they're working for are not even things that they really want. It's maybe things that they've been told that they should want, or things that everybody around them wants, but they haven't really stopped to think.

Lindsay Vastola (35:00.763)
Yes. Or things they wanted when we were in our 20s and 30s and you know what, in our 40s and 50s, we don't want them anymore. And that has to be okay. It doesn't mean that it's easy and you can't just willy-nilly. But I do think one of the things I talk about that's very powerful for me as a tool, if you will, is I call it a pattern interrupt. When you're in this where you feel stuck, you're just doing the mundane, you're on the hamster wheel, you're doing the family thing, you're doing the work thing. That's the fast track to burnout and depression and all the things. Feeling like you actually don't have aspiration for the future because you've never stoked any... If you're seeing the same things all day long, you're thinking the same thoughts, you're seeing the same things, you're around the same people, of course you're not going to magically come up with this creative idea. So I call it a pattern interrupt and it can come in one of three ways. Pattern interrupt can be environmental, I think is the biggest one. These can happen moment to moment or in a bigger picture. Great example is I work from home, literally looking across and I see laundry over here. This is supposed to be my work creative space. I know I am creatively stifled here. I can force my brain to be creative and it's just not going to work. I can't will myself to that. So a pattern interrupt, an environmental pattern interrupt is I go to a coffee shop or a co-working space. I can do that for one day for a couple of hours, stoke creativity because it's in a new environment. It helps me feel momentum. I think momentum is, that's why I love, I have a program called Momentum. Like that word, that's actually what most of us crave. We crave momentum, like we're moving forward. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slow, but it's forward nonetheless. When we feel stuck is where we're unhappy and we question everything. That pattern interrupt or it's like, that's why vacations feel so good because you're going to a new place and you come back. Go to a conference and come back, go to a networking event, go to dinner with friends. That's a pattern interrupt. A people pattern interrupt. Our conversations that we just do every couple months, that's a pattern interrupt for me. We can have different conversations. It takes me out of the mundane, gets my brain thinking about other things. An intellectual pattern interrupt, and that can be reading something, listening to a podcast. Again, this can happen in like, okay, I'm stuck at my computer or I'm stuck with the same routine with the kids. I'm going to spend five minutes and listen to a motivational YouTube video or something like that. Such a little thing, that pattern interrupt. It doesn't have to be a big yoga retreat. It can be, but these things, having a new person, hiring a coach, putting yourself in a new circle of people, that's the only thing that I find that gets us out of that pattern of stuckness and frustration. You have to change the direction of the turnstile in order to create momentum.

Kelly Berry (36:55.934)
Yeah, totally. I think of a couple of things that relate to that. One is, and it kind of goes back to those salty things that we see in a way to handle that. What I see when I'm looking at social media or even looking at LinkedIn to an extent, the same people are following the same people and are doing the same things and they're not looking outside of their circle for influence from any other place. I think that that's dangerous. It's not dangerous in a bodily harm way necessarily, but it's dangerous because you get into group think, you're not thinking like an individual. So I see that a lot. When I find myself always hearing or seeing things from the same sources, I will intentionally go out and start seeking new people to follow or new thought leaders or read a new book or even read a book. Mostly these days, like listen to a very short podcast because who has time to read books.

Lindsay Vastola (39:00.347)
While you're eating your bonbons and watching Lifetime movies. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Berry (39:05.278)
Right, right. Because with a toddler, you have all kinds of time to read books. Paper books around here don't last any time. Oh, yeah.

Lindsay Vastola (39:14.267)
Get chewed on and thrown in. A couple of months ago, I was one of the groups that I'm in. Jeff Hoffman was the speaker and he's the founder of and several other companies. He's a billionaire with a B and phenomenal human being. It was an incredible experience. I had asked the question, I'm always so curious and fascinated about what we would call these super successful entrepreneurs or business owners or these people. How do they look at the world? When they're walking around, just like we do, how do they look at the world? What questions are they asking? If we're looking at the same storefront, are they looking at it differently than we are? How would they ideate things? He said, one thing that's been really helpful for him is every day or every week, he will intentionally pick up a magazine that's totally off the cuff. If he's in the travel industry, he would pick up a magazine from the auto mechanic and body shop world. He would just thumb through the magazine or the book if he's in an airport and just thumb through something that's totally unrelated. To your point, if you're in an industry or you're in a job or you're in a community, you're going to group think the people, those influences you're around. Picking up a book, a magazine, or going to a conference or an event that isn't in your industry by any means, talking to people. He would do this very intentionally. He said he got some of the best inspiration and best ideas by going outside of his bubble of his industry. If we are to be honest, he was like basically driving the travel industry with in many respects. He said by doing that, it kept his ideas fresh. That's how he stayed in front for so long. It inspired new business ideas. It inspired things he could come back and do with his teams for him personally. I love that. I try to do that as often as possible as just, yeah, if I'm in a Barnes and Noble and my kids are going to wait for them, I'll just go and pick up the magazine rack or at the grocery store when you're in line, things you would never pick up and read. I think that's important for us intellectually to just keep those, think of children, they're always absorbing everything. If we think about what we're absorbing every day, it's the same media from the same people for the same topics.

Kelly Berry (42:20.414)

Lindsay Vastola (42:42.075)
I think it's important for our personal growth and just our personal sanity that we feel like we're not stuck in that bubble.

Kelly Berry (42:49.15)
Yeah. I think I'm a person, I think you're a person who likes to think about how we think about things. You're right. When you're talking about like, I wonder how these people see the world, like, I wonder everything about everybody all the time. How are these people making decisions? This is something I think about all the time. When somebody says, or they make a Facebook post that says like, I love my husband so much. He makes me a better person. I'm like, I want to know how does he make you a better person? In other marriages, how do they make each other better? Are they actually making each other better or is that something that they hear other people say or think that they have to say? I'm always wondering about other people's friendships. Are they challenging each other? Are they helping each other grow or are they just cheerleaders? I don't think any of those things are right or wrong. I'm always just very curious about what is going on and how are people thinking about it and how are they making all of these decisions in their everyday life?

Lindsay Vastola (42:57.339)
Yes, maybe to our own detriment.

Lindsay Vastola (43:07.003)

Kelly Berry (43:46.366)

Lindsay Vastola (43:49.115)
I agree.

Lindsay Vastola (43:53.851)
Yeah. And then selfishly, how can I use it to integrate into my life or just take it and put it in the back pocket?

Kelly Berry (44:10.078)

Yeah, exactly. How are they raising their kids? What kind of conversations are people having about how to raise their kids? Are they talking about it? Are the things that they're doing intentional? A big thing with this podcast is how to be intentional and purposeful. So I'm just always very curious, what goes into the decisions that people are making? Personal career, parenting.

Lindsay Vastola (44:41.563)
Yeah. It's such an interesting two-sided coin. On the one hand, it's being intentional, right? Having ideally some clear North Star of your life. Maybe it doesn't even mean having a career goal or financial or like what it looks, but just like, what kind of person do you want to show up in this world? So there's that one side of intentionality and clear vision. But on the flip side, it's like, I'm also building this plane as I fly it. Like building this plane of life. It's like parenting. It's like as many books as you read and as much advice, it's like moment to moment, I'm just building this plane as I'm flying it. And that gives me grace. For some reason, that phrase gives me grace. I say it in my business all the time. Like, I'm just building this plane as I fly it. Like, I don't know what I'm doing a lot of the time, but I have to fly it and then I'm going to fix the thing as I go. And I know what I know. I'm going to leverage that, but then it just gives me grace to not wait. I think that's the thing. It's like, you got to fly the plane. It's like the ready fire aim. Kind of the same concept. It's like, you're never ready to have a preteen, but the preteen is coming. So you got to make yourself ready for it. Parenting is such a great analogy for keeping up with life. It's like, I can wish my kid doesn't become a preteen, but no.

Kelly Berry (45:51.262)

Kelly Berry (45:55.294)

Kelly Berry (46:04.702)

Lindsay Vastola (46:15.419)
No, he's a preteen and he's fussing about his hair this morning and it's a very real thing and it challenges me to be, how am I going to show up as a parent and act medium and not be super emotional and be like, just suck it up and be patient. Not a big deal to him, it's a big deal. But in the moment, it's like, I've got to learn this lesson as I'm building this plane. So that gives me some grace, I think, and hopefully that might for others that it's like, we don't have it all figured out.

Kelly Berry (46:19.71)

Kelly Berry (46:26.622)

Kelly Berry (46:31.262)

Kelly Berry (46:46.078)
Yeah, I think that is a super important highlight from what you were just talking about. I think this is something else that really holds people back is perfectionism or thinking they have to have it all figured out before they take the first step. I think it's extremely admirable to have a mantra like that. I'm building a plane as I fly it. Because if you wait until the plane is built, you're going to miss out. Your mind will have changed. You missed the opportunity. So there's a whole lot to be said about just taking the first step, whether it's the confidence to do it or you get to a point where you know the at what cost is too great to sit and wait around for everything to be perfect before you take the next step.

Lindsay Vastola (46:46.875)
Intentionality but build the plane.

Lindsay Vastola (47:15.838)
You're dead.

Kelly Berry (47:16.955)

Lindsay Vastola (47:20.909)

Lindsay Vastola (47:25.435)
A couple other, again, I call them a mantra, what have you. These are those little, these things that I need to lean on so that I can self-inflict. That's what I keep coming back to. It's like, if I have to light the fire, I have to light my own fire, I can't rely on external motivation. Motivation isn't just this flip or switch that we can flip. For me, it's like, okay, I'm building the plane as I'm flying it. If I find myself stewing over something because I want it to be perfect, I mean, I have standards. So it's different, like have standards without a doubt. But I know sometimes those standards have just been absolutely ridiculous that now I'm compromising getting it done and then I don't do it. Then you fall into the confidence trap is, you know, really thinking about the like done is better than perfect. Done is better than perfect. Or like, do it anyway. That's another mantra I love. It's like, there's a lot of things that we don't want to do. How many of us really want to do dishes at the end of the night? But you know what I hate more? Waking up the next morning to sink full of dishes. So for however long, I was like, when you start, you know, you're a homeowner and, or you get your first place and it's like, you know what? I hate dirty dishes in the morning. I hate them. The pain is bad enough. I hate it so much that I tell myself, oh, I know you're so tired, you just want to go to bed, but just do it anyway, you're going to feel better in the morning. That can be relevant across so many things. It's like, just do the thing. It doesn't have to look perfect, but you know you're going to feel better just by the sheer act of doing it. And the more you practice it, now you don't have to like argue with yourself at night to do the dishes on most nights because it's become a discipline.

Kelly Berry (48:48.414)

Kelly Berry (48:57.406)

Lindsay Vastola (49:02.139)
And we just lack the discipline of doing because we get so caught up in external pressures, what we think other people, that's a big one that I still grapple with. I think I'm better and better, but really releasing external, we were talking about that mindset, that fixed mindset of, you know, what are other people going to think of me? And the fact of the matter is most people aren't even thinking about me. They're not. Who am I to think that all these people are really caring about what I do? And I'm saying that a little bit tongue in cheek, but that's the way I have to be like, okay, just put the post up or go do the thing that feels uncomfortable. And then you move through it and you put that coin in the confidence bank because you just did the promise that you said you were going to do. I think we'll leave this out on that.

Kelly Berry (49:06.91)

Kelly Berry (49:26.718)

Kelly Berry (49:29.63)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So much good stuff in there and what you just said. Yeah. I think taking the first step will give you the confidence to take the second step and that'll give you the confidence to take the third step. Those actions just build on each other. You'll then have a self-propelled ship that'll keep you going. I think that's really important too. I think something else that you said you didn't explicitly say, but I think with age comes confidence and regaining that trust in yourself that you can trust yourself to make good decisions, that you trust when you know what to do or how to do something. Not saying just wait, things will get easier with time, but those are things that you can work on and develop. Every step that you take in the right direction is just continuing to build that muscle of decision-making or action or whatever it may be to get where you want to go.

Lindsay Vastola (51:21.691)
Yeah, and I know we probably need to wrap up, but I think that this is, it's actually a really important piece. What I see over and over and over again and experienced personally is it's so fascinating with men and women. We often have this gap. Like I see these men and women who are like ferociously competent and confident in their professional life and they show up and especially with age, right? You get more confidence as you grow and build, but yet in their personal life, they're almost like little kids. The confidence, and usually it's because they've put their health and well-being on the back burner, and so they've gained weight, or they're not showing up for themselves personally. There's a lot of reasoning, we can go into, where usually the professional piece, there's way too much skin in the game, obvious skin in the game. Financial, your credibility, like you have to go to work and you have to do the things you have to do to get the job done. The skin in the game and the personal side, it's definitely there, but we don't put the same emphasis on it. Cause we keep thinking like, oh, I can start working out next week. I can eat better next week. And then now we don't feel good about ourselves. And so this gap is huge. And so, and what happens is, is then we go and we're talking about trusting ourselves. So we trust ourselves in our decisions often professionally as we get older and we're more confident there. Yet our confidence in our physical health and well-being of it usually I find comes at a peak probably before kids, before the stressors of life and career hit. And so what happens is if we're talking about confidence, how to build that side so that they match, that they actually level up both. I think it's Ed Mylett says it or what have you but it's like confidence only happens when you keep the promises you make to yourself and the way I the analogy I use it's like if I tell my daughter hey I'll take you to the park tomorrow and you know darn well those kids remember those details and then and then you don't take her and then I don't take her to the park well mom you said you're gonna take me to the park I know I know but we're busy. Okay, that like it's chipping away at her trust in me, her confidence in me. Every time I make a promise to her and I don't keep it, I know and the most painful thing a parent can hear is like, you always tell me you're gonna do something and then you never do it. And like they'll explicitly like, I can't trust you anymore. Like my daughter actually said that to me. Like I can't trust you. And I was like, oh, that's right to the heart. And so what do we do? We're very careful with the promises we make to our kids, to our family, to our coworkers, because we want that trust with them. And so we really think about the promises we make. Most of us don't have that same intentionality with the promises we make to ourselves. So we're like, I'm going to go back and work out tomorrow. I'm going to lose weight this time. I'm going to finally save money. I'm going to make those phone calls to the people I care about. And then we don't do it and we don't do it and we don't do it. And so we don't trust ourselves. And we don't have confidence. And so if we start being really cautious about the promises that we're making, I'll use exercise as an example, because I think everybody can relate to this. We go from like zero to a hundred, like I'm going to go exercise every day for an hour. I'm going to go back to the gym. Well, you know, darn well that that is not a promise you're going to be able to keep to yourself. So why don't you start with like a 20-minute walk, three days a week. Every time you do that, you're going to get the feel-good factor of like, I kept the promise and then you build from there. Like it has, it doesn't go zero to a hundred. You don't get the full piggy bank first. And so I think that that's something we really need to carefully consider when it comes to confidence and making change and trusting our own decisions is like, you have to build the trust with yourself, just like you build the trust and the way you do it is you keep the promises you make to yourself. So you're really careful with the promises you make. And then I think over time that confidence and that trust grows to match that, especially that professional side as we get older.

Kelly Berry (55:08.094)

Kelly Berry (55:34.43)

I love that. Yeah. I do think we need to wrap up, but I could talk about like consistency and commitment and all of those things probably forever.

Lindsay Vastola (55:48.955)
Yes. We just don't do a lot of the things we do for other people. If we just stepped outside of ourselves and treated, and it's so cliche. I know it's easier said than done. But if we had honest conversations with ourselves and we're like, what would I do? How would I show up for myself the same way I do for them and not feel guilty about it? It's actually required. I need to do that first so that I can show up for other people and not be like, yeah, I can show for my kids, but I'm going to be short-tempered and angry and depressed. That's not who I want to be. So catch 22. It's hard.

Kelly Berry (56:24.414)
Yeah, so much good stuff, Lindsay. So much good stuff. Well, I do have kind of a surprise I didn't tell you about, but I have some end of the podcast questions. I know I didn't tell you. I like spontaneity. So two questions. What is one thing personally or professionally that you would like to accomplish this year?

Lindsay Vastola (56:37.627)
Oh, you didn't tell me about these.

Lindsay Vastola (56:43.579)
I love it.

Lindsay Vastola (56:54.171)
Okay, I want to professionally, I want to impact 10,000 lives. Like that's been, so whether it's through my speaking or my books or like 10,000 is that number for me. Yeah.

Kelly Berry (57:09.95)
Nice. That's awesome. How are you doing so far?

Lindsay Vastola (57:14.043)
I need to keep a ticker marker on it. I literally last night I was thinking, I'm like, I actually need to track this because it's a promise I made to myself. So I need to track it. Yeah. But that, that for me is a big one this year. That would feel really good.

Kelly Berry (57:21.534)

Kelly Berry (57:26.334)
Yeah, awesome. Well, we just need this podcast to go viral and then mission accomplished. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. And then the final question is, how do you recharge?

Lindsay Vastola (57:31.099)
There you go. Get me 9,999 and you could be the 10,000.

Lindsay Vastola (57:42.267)
Oh, good question. Oh, such a good question. Okay. I recharge. Okay. In a big way, like in a night, it's, it's literally leaving. Like I love, I travel, you know, occasionally for work and that's a recharge. Now I can't do that. Like just on a whim, I have a family and all those things. So that's important. A daily recharge for me, honestly, is my first thing in the morning gym. And sometimes, like, it's almost necessary for me to do, that's my recharge. It wasn't always, interestingly enough, but it's the one thing I look forward to. It sets the tone for the day. So that's something I do, I think, on a daily basis. And I'd say if there's anything else too, it's just like quiet time. I love quiet time, like going to a coffee shop and like, even if it's work, for me, work is fuel for me. So for some people it might just be going and like reading a book or something, but for me, work is recharge, like certain aspects of my work. So going to a new place, like a coffee shop or something, like I recharge alone.

Kelly Berry (58:38.046)

Yeah, yeah, awesome. I recharge alone also. Yeah, really good stuff. So, so much value in there and so many really, which I knew you'd bring, so I'm glad that you did, was like tangible things that people can do, think about, apply. And it's really, you know, that's why I'm doing this and talking to people like you with so much wisdom and they can really impact just the way people are living. And that's the goal.

Lindsay Vastola (59:22.395)

Kelly Berry (59:26.59)
Awesome. Well, thank you for being a part of it. Yeah. And have a good rest of your day and we'll talk later. Okay. Bye.

Lindsay Vastola (59:49.691)
You too. Okay. Bye.